Tuesday
Oct042011
ATP Podcast Episode 24: Arcades Are Not Dead
BY 
Aris ON Tuesday, October 4, 2011 at 10:50AM
Aris ON Tuesday, October 4, 2011 at 10:50AM 
It's been a while but we're back with another podcast. This time around, MYK and I have Rip on the show to discuss the current and future status of arcades in America, as well as some thoughts on TTT2. I'm pretty sure this is the most worked up I've ever gotten on a podcast since this topic is very important to me. Anyway, hope you guys enjoy it.
As always, If you have any questions or suggestions, don't hesitate to leave comments or contact us at aris@avoidingthepuddle.com.
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Reader Comments (145)
@subt-L
It's not my problem that you don't have time, that's your life decision and thus not much of a base to bitch on. Then again, most of us here also happen to have lives, but thanks to a magical thing called a weekend, we have time to play. But hey, congratz on your job and family, sure beats playing videogames all day. I mean that.
Also, INFAMOUSMINDED's logic is just mindblowing.
bad argue with bugs
if arcades or consoles get the bug fixes makes no different
play now ttt2 on ps3 or in one year that makes difference in learning the game
loldongs: not havng time isn't the biggest part of my argument. arcades have a place in the community. they have a function, and a marketable function. its like saying joysticks are useless for the community because pads are the future.
see, people get so one sided about things. its either exists as is or doesn't.
arcades can be popular still. i know golfland in norcal makes hella money, but its not off of arcade games. it was smart and had a diversified market. it invested itself as a golf course, and arcade, and a childrens party option. it invested in redemption games and established multiple sources of income. the actual video games? they break even most of the time, but over an extended amount of time. but the owners are great in that aspect that they will still support us and can support us because they were smart when they started and adapted their businesses to the time.
people think arcades need to die because its business model is outdated. but its function is still marketable. so the real problems are:
1. arcades need a new business model that allows them to turn a profit
2. people need to buy into the function of arcades for reasons like the ones listed in my previous post
not just for me, who's busy with work. its also for people who have school. people who don't have a house to invite people to. people who don't have the money for a video game system and monitor. people who new to the scene and aren't as socialible. not everyone may be as comfortable as you, and people need alternatives instead of having none.
people act like california is lucky we have arcades. that's not really the case. our arcades adapted and our local communities work hard to support them. some places might need to work harder to achieve what we have, but most are simply too lazy and apathetic to what it means. it isn't nostalgia: its an objective opinion from people who have actually experienced both eras.
Want another example of an arcade that has adapted and changed its "bad business model"? Try an arcade where they hold 200+ man weekly console tournaments called Wednesday Night Fights. Take a guess how many of the players who attend on Wednesdays come by on other days...Lots. If arcades are dead like the way so many of you fools say they are, how is it that I sit behind the counter for one and watch hundreds of people walk in and out all day long? How is it that when I arrive to open the doors at 10 AM on a weekday, there are more often than not at least 5 players waiting for me? That doesn't sound dead to me.
Your point is made and valid Aris, but the same exactl thing could be said the other way around.
I.e. semi quoting you here: only because all YOU know is tekken arcade and thats all you ever play, that doesnt mean its the correct version of it. You can be an offline player, join an online match and be the outcast guy. It works both ways. Matter of fact actually: where I live and I just go ahead and assume its like that all over europe, online tekken has way more active players than offline tekken. Do you know what that means? Damn right, it means online tekken for those parts is the more relevant, the REAL mode. I play the game both on and offline and both modes is tekken 6, nothing else. Tekken online doesnt suddenly become another "mode", thats retarded to think. Its the same darn game. Its the same as saying Azreal Chamber is another tekken mode because it has no walls and therefore plays differently. It just doesnt apply.
That said, obviously its retarded to want arcades to die. Without arcades there wouldnt be online tekken in the first place. If there was an arcade in a reachable distance around where I live, Id be there every day. But there isnt one, for the obvious reason that it wouldnt pay off for the host of it.
I cant understand people either that think arcades shud be left to die, but the weird comparisons you make with online tekken and whats the real tekken are not only biased (like you said yourself) but also mostly wrong. Like I said, just because you think playing tekken in an arcade is the right way it doesnt make it so. In this area of gaming, playing online is the common way of playing multiplayer games, there is no way around it. There is not a single multiplayer game existing that has a more activ offline community compared to the online one. Cant stop the future, even if its hurting you.
hey, if console sucks so bad, does anakin have an arcade near his place? how did he get so good?
Tekken's online is never a "real" play mode if you ask me. It just sucks ass, only good for having a laugh at seeing how much stupid shit you can make work in it which could never work offline. When the lag is so bad that you have to invent shit like an online etiquette (no slow lows, no throws) to play it "seriously", the game no longer is the same game, but something else. Thus, offline and online Tekken will be different no matter how much online warriors argue as long as Namco keeps pumping out garbage netcode in their fighters.
Also, who exactly has especially wanted to arcades to die? Seriously, has some people really said that? Because that's pretty goddamn retarded.
Aris you're waaaaaay to filled with emotions when speaking about arcades.
"Want another example of an arcade that has adapted and changed its "bad business model"? Try an arcade where they hold 200+ man weekly console tournaments called Wednesday Night Fights. Take a guess how many of the players who attend on Wednesdays come by on other days...Lots. If arcades are dead like the way so many of you fools say they are, how is it that I sit behind the counter for one and watch hundreds of people walk in and out all day long? How is it that when I arrive to open the doors at 10 AM on a weekday, there are more often than not at least 5 players waiting for me? That doesn't sound dead to me."
Unique instances does not prove a trend or theory - the mass does. How many new arcades that are succesful are popping up? How many of those players that are waiting at 10am come to play Tekken at superarcade? Weren't you the one yourself who said that the biggest income machine of your arcade was the vending machine selling sodas? Maybe change it to a café instead? Weren't you the one in the podcast saying it was idiotic to start an arcade and expect it to be of big income these days? Then why are you all emotional now and trying to claim how buisness is booming at your local place? It's just dumb man. Anyone can sit and hold their hands for their ears and sing but it doesn't change reality. Arcades ARE dying. Fucking Joybox closed. Now you can either say "no everything is wrong, arcades are good and alive the error is in the players" OR you can say "how can we fix the current problem/trends at hand".
Just cause people think (imo rightfully) that arcades are dying doesn't mean that people don't wish that they were, are naive, are egotistical or lots of other things. P.S; Sorry RIP for the fuckup - still enjoy watching your Law more then JFJ and appreciate what you do.
Good to hear from you guys again, please don't stop those podcasts coming.
"Aris what are you guys going to do when TTT2 finally drops on console? Will you still go play sessions at Super? Even if you did how would that make enough money to support Super? With Marvel, SFxT, and all future Capcom titles being console only how long do you really think Super can survive?"
Would really like an answer to this question posed earlier. And try to be straight about it. So, yeah, WNF works, that's great. But they're not exactly playing marvel on an arcademachines are they? So why are you so opposed to consolegaming? How many of the tekkenplayers in your local community do you think will drop by seeking to play T6 at super when TT2 drops on console? Not a single one.
i don't think he's saying that console and having home sessions have no place...
i do think he's saying that arcade sessions, as a regular event, are the best way to play the game. for entertainment and for competition.
abandoning arcades is like taking the best way of doing things and taking the lesser options because they are more convenient.
its like if you have a gourmet restaurant a mile down the road that has amazing food. but no one gives it any business because mcdonalds is just a block down. with a little more effort, you could have so much better food, but people will eat the crap because it takes less effort to attain.
and the sad thing is that people will defend the crap food because they don't know how good the gourmet food is....
First of all, Just as I said, Super arcade has changed its "bad business model". We have MVC3 on Xbox installed on a Japanese Cabinet and top players like Clockwork, Marn and Mike Ross play often. This brings in scrubs. Because of this type of open minded business model combined with deep community support from myself and Mike Watson, Super Arcade will be around for a long time.
On the topic of the fridge being the most successful machine in the arcade, the reason for this is that ALL our fighting games are LESS THAN ONE QUARTER to play. This is because we have token deals. Even 10 years ago you wouldn't expect to get rich charging those prices in an arcade.
BTW it's 11:30 am on a Thursday and I'm looking at 6 people playing Tekken 6. I know for a fact that 3 of those people own the console version. Arcades are dying but they aren't dead. People just need to change their attitudes. Think of them as an endangered species, should we just say "fuck the panda bear" and let it die?
It's definitely black and white thinking to say that you either support arcades or let them die.
Arcades are a niche that will probably always be around, either by large companies looking for mass entertainment like Round One or by small company enthusiasts.
Different people have different needs and that continuum of needs decides the success of arcades.
If I had a local arcade in my city with Tekken 6, I'd much rather have the players come over to my house where the games are free and you can smoke cigarettes inside. It's also nice to play on consoles since most tournaments are run on consoles. Also many of my Tekken player friends use a pad for some stupid reason. They can't use that at Golf n' Games.
Arcades are fun. I support them by going once in a while.
I was a little confused about the differences in Third Strike Arcade and Third Strike Online. What exactly are the differences? The press releases claimed it was arcade perfect, but you claimed it was not. Besides the claim that 'it just feels different', did you notice anything specific that's been changed? There was no clarification on the Podcast.
Oh and by the way fuck panda bears and endangered species too.
Thanks and keep up good work.
I definitely think arcades are one of the best ways to actually MEET new competition and get in good competition with out having to become your opponents close friend. I think that thats probably one of the best things about arcades. i thought about it after making the above post.
Great so you've finally accepted the fact that arcades are dying. The problem is / was that you stated supercarcade where you work as a response to that people were faulty saying that arcdades are dying in the first place which I felt was a shady as hell way of arguing for your point.
An arcade is a place where videogames are played, maybe the real deal isn't arcades are dying but arcademachines are. In regards to attracting scrubs and them being needed you alienate a huge playerbase from scratch simply if they can't play on pads I guess on an average machine. The majority of players actually do this which is easy to ignore. As I see it, starting a business these days of arcademachines compared to something like a inet café is just plain retarded. They are too expensive and volatile. For one single TT2 machine you could get 10 pc's which WOW nerds would pay to play for hours and you could later on sell them, replace parts, upgrade etc. You could even change the game to the next flavor of the month,.. which is something you actually can do with a consolearcade also. And that is important.
"Arcades are dying but they aren't dead. People just need to change their attitudes. Think of them as an endangered species, should we just say "fuck the panda bear" and let it die? "
What if other buisnessmodels applied the idea of that "people should change their attitudes" when things start going to hell? What do you think would happen? It's the business that should evolve not the players or customers. The business is there to fulfill a need of the people, not the other way around. Nomatter what you say people aren't going to magically change their emotions and wills and start coming to arcades at this point so why even go down that road?
Fuck the panda bear and let it die? Comeon now; you know that's cheating. That would be like me calling in Nazis to argument my point (or linking to a wikiepedia style article about groupthink: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Groupthink ) - nobody wants to see a teddybear die. Think of it as a Zoo in which the owner really likes pandas instead. But the public doesn't want to see just pandas, they get bored with them. They want giraffs. Elephants. But the owner refuses to change; "I like pandas! 50years ago pandas were all the rage, we had people travelling from Mexico to see them. People need to start appreciate pandas again they're the best animal!". And then one day there is nobody coming at all, and the owner can't sustain having his pandas or the zoo open.
What happens to the pandas then?
This Reality guy says "what are you going to do when TTT2 finally drops on console?'' A...I'm going to obviously support it bc i have been supporting this franchise since day 1. So ....with that said I hope console is great this time around but,obviously I'm still going to the Arcade. That's where competition is. That's how you level up,Tthats how you learn matchups/gain character knowledge/make friends, meet people /networking. Like subt-L said you can't do that at home Reality. How do you do it? You lazy ass fool.You obviously need to listen to this podcast again bc you weren't listening. I'm not sorry if I like the arcade enviornment. Im proud of it. And all we have here in NY is Next Level.
I'm sorry infamous but like loldongs at the top of the page I find your logic and way of conduct really out there. Besides that you get really aggressive, idolize certain people, so I don't see the point in arguing with you. I'm not going to "defend" myself for you in your Ad Hominem Argument attempts.
"I definitely think arcades are one of the best ways to actually MEET new competition and get in good competition with out having to become your opponents close friend."
They basically were THE ONLY way but that was 10-15years ago before internet and forums and whatnot. Now they are secondary in that function and their importance not of the same magnitude anymore.
because meeting people on the internet ALWAYS yields good results.
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