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Thursday
Mar312011

Avoiding the Puddle Episode 18 featuring LingMassacre

In this episode I catch up with LingMassacre. I highly recommend listening to the discussion towards the end of the interview with him because we get into some interesting philosophical topics. But before that, MYK and I discuss how the new trend of comeback mechanics in fighting games may be resulting in an angrier fighting game player. Is trash talk combined with X-Factor a recipe for disaster?

If you have any suggestions feel free to leave comments or contact us at aris@avoidingthepuddle.com.

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Avoiding the Puddle Episode #18 featuring LingMassacre

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Reader Comments (95)

great podcast. i enjoyed your insights on tekken, LM!


Aris: i think maybe because you havent fought against a lot of eddy/ling players is why you are having more of a difficult time? when fighting against "stance" characters, you gotta know the match inside and out (how to punish accordingly, what moves not to use, etc). maybe because drag is your main, you are more comfortable using him and using his tools effectively, compared to your feng.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 1:19 PM | Unregistered CommentereDDIEBOYMANG

also, stance characters can get away with a lot of bull shit esp if you dont know what theyre doing.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 1:20 PM | Unregistered CommentereDDIEBOYMANG

LingMassacre I see your point in why you play Tekken competetively in tournaments, but Aris's point makes more logical sense bc there is more of a rewarding factor when you defeat someone that is better than you in some area's. with that victory its like all of that hard work and dedication that you yourself as a player put into the game,feels like you reached your goal. This game is competetive and if you want to have fun,you should be playing casualy. You can still have fun placing high and owning other reputable players. You seem very educated LingMassacre and I respect you alot. NYC-out.......

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 2:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterIMFAMNOUSMINDED

On violence and videogames:
Not only games like Marvel piss people off. Video games, shit talk and violence have gone hand in hand since the fucking dawn of time. I remember playing Royal Rumble on the SNES back in the day with my brother. There was a system where you'd press a button to engage into a grapple, then you and the other player would contest eachother in a button mashing fest until the person mashing harder would be granted whichever body slam sort of move he chose. This shit was fucking enraging because there was no time limit to this contest. We'd go for minutes at a time until one of us, sweaty, pissed and with blistered fingers, would finally break, get chokeslammed, then turn and physically attack the winner of the grapple. Counter-Strike was precise as fuck, and I remember being in a game room in San Gabriel years back when somebody, talking shit after 'nading some guy in the same room over LAN, was fucking stabbed in the side by that same guy. There's a Quake 3 Arena story of some shit talker getting killed by a bomb in the mail. If you know Ultima Online, you'd know that many have been legitimately killed over that fucked up, ruthless game. So, with MVC3, on one hand-- you're a moron if you play that game and take it seriously to the point where you get pissed for losing. BUT-- on the other hand, you're a moron if you talk shit in such a way that means to instigate anger-- period. The point is not that games like MVC3 create violence, or any other games for that matter, but rather, people engaging in situations where they think they can shit talk somebody they're beating, either in actuality or virtuality, in an instigating way just because they beat them in a video game are the factors that create violence. Shit, you can get violent even with somebody you've known for years if they're talking shit and fucking you up real good. I for one am conditioned not to talk shit unless I'm doing for the sole purpose of trying to get you to want to physically attack me, which is just about almost never. The moral of the story is be fucking careful who you talk shit to, be careful where you talk shit, and in what contexts. You never know who's going to fuck you up. After all, with competitive video games you're engaging in a kind of virtual violence, yet you're so physically removed from it that those negative emotions can well up easily without any sort of means for release. If you've practiced your ass off, actually have spent good hours of your life trying to own, and you're getting fucking worked over and over by some guy you sort of know who could be right at your side while he's talking brutal shit to you, you're going to get pissed the fuck off, because despite how rational people claim to be, people are fucking animals, and commonly, a game is rarely "just a game" for somebody losing their ass off to some cock who's talking mad shit at your failure. If somebody is talking shit for the sake of shared LOL's: hilariously awesome, as it's a friendly gesture-- such as when Unconkable raped my shit like 15 matches in a row in Norcal last year using new, annoying as fuck Zafina. BUT, if somebody is talking shit for the sake of being an asshole to me, such as my brother (who's the most enragingly prophetic shit talker ever) then holy shit you can bet there will be some physicality going down. Don't like violence? don't incite it.

On understanding Anakin's attitude, as well as LingMassacre's:
Refer to Benny "The Jet" Urquidez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-Lkqz_dnk
This guy raped. Why? he didn't believe he could lose. Even if he lost or was losing, he didn't perceive it as such because to him, the whole ordeal was fun. But, he didn't really lose all to much. Instead, he just raped and raped and raped because of this approach to his art. Look up some more of his interviews and you'll get a sense for what I mean.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 3:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterDeathbybears

wall of text, goddamn.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 4:24 PM | Unregistered Commenterloldongs

LM's Ling is fantastic. I started using her in DR and learned many things from his usage of the character. I met him briefly @ final round and he seems like a rad guy. Very talented. I also believe he shouldn't have lost his fight to Killa6. My Baek is better. :)

I agree about old players being whiney geezers though. Most of them don't even play the game.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 4:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaybonekilla

@ Deathbybears
You are not allowed to ram someone with your car if they cut you off in traffic. You are not allowed to pull a knife on someone if they give your girl a wink at a bar. I mean, yes these things happen, but the law frowns on it and your ass will more than likely be hauled off to jail if you do it. I absolutely hate trash talking, but I also understand that it's childish to get into a fight over it because THAT'S NOT HOW THE ADULT WORLD WORKS. By arguing that the moral of the story is don't trash talk if you don't want violence, you've just implied that adult gamers are too stupid and/or juvenile to control themselves when it comes to games. Maybe everytime we join a tournament, we should have a dog collar or toddler leash placed on us because we can't be trusted to not bionic arm someone?

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 5:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterBabymax

@ Babymax

I agree with you that people need to maintain some degree of control over their emotions, but you ought to recognize that shit talk is one of the mechanisms by which we seek to undermine another's such control, and success could mean your ass. My comment has nothing to do with notions of intelligence or childishness, but rather practicality in nature. I'm Implying that, for the sake of protecting yourself, you should not expect "people" to always act in accordance with social constructs of the "adult world" if and when you talk shit for the sake of upsetting them or making them look bad in front of their peers.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 6:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterDeathbybears

If you're trying to achieve a mental victory by getting in someone's head, there are more effective polite ways to do it.

Shit talking is great, but only as a tool for generating hype... not really for mental victory. Alot of good players are immune to it anyway.

Here's a list of better ways to do it:
1. Be a f*cking rock. No emotion gets in, no emotion gets out. Poker face all the time. Be one cool m*therfucker.
2. Carry a big stick. Reputation alone can sometimes get you wins.
3. Freeze them out. DELAY EVERYTHING YOU DO. MOVE LIKE A SNAIL. It can make them antsy.
4. Be nice. Sometimes people just don't expect you being the nicest guy on the planet. F*cks with their head.

"All you have to do is follow three simple rules. One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside the bar unless it's absolutely necessary. And three, be nice. "

And Benny Urquidez is the f*cking man.

Saturday, April 2, 2011 at 8:09 PM | Unregistered Commenterlingmassacre

what took so long to release the podcast you fat ugly discusting homeless waste

Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 12:07 AM | Unregistered CommenterADFUFWG

You need to get that philosophy podcast together. Your the only one who talks about these things in depth and its very interesting.

Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 4:06 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteegle

@Raybone, killa6 has earned his keep. Hopefully some more people want to play Baek now. Wish I could have switched to my Baek, I think I would have had a better chance. Wish I could have had some more games with the Oklahoma guys, I know y'all have monsters out there.

@Infamous, it's a different point of view, and makes more logical sense from that standpoint. Really, there's no right answer. Find what works best for you and run with it.

PS. I'm only saying this because I love being an ego hound. My cast has more comments than the Harada/Murray/Odashima cast (most of them are from me, lol). Someone go post in there.

Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 9:12 PM | Unregistered Commenterlingmassacre

infamousminded: i think that if you were REALLY competitive, then i think aris's mindset makes more sense to you.

but they say success is goal-orientated. You set goals for yourself, then you try to accomplish them. but goals need to be realistic within reach to achieve. if my goal is to beat top level players but i realistically don't have the ability/time invested, then my goal will never be achieved and i have no chance at succeeding... which is why we have these new players with this mentality "if i'm just gonna lose, then why bother entering tournaments?"

If their goal was to maybe get 1 win. or maybe hit the combo they have been struggling with. maybe get that setup to work, or just compete fairly... fuck it, just to have fun even... maybe people's internal reward system would oblige them to show up to events on a regular basis.

if you achieve those goals, then you can upgrade them or work on perfecting them. then you're encouraged. then you can move forward and progress to the next level. success needs to constantly be measured, and if your goals aren't attainable, then that's why you get people dropping out of the scene when they have issues adapting or not picking up newer games because they want the same results they had before without tempering their goals.

LM: i disagree with your ideals on shit talk. shit talk will easily throw people off; politeness is FAR less effective... i don't see how this is can be debated.

many players (even myself) can ride on the emotions of others. positive (and occasionally negative) emotions can spark up motivation, focus, and alter playstyles, in both positive and negative aspects. Yes, good sportsmanship is a great value to have, but not everyone is a good sportsman, and not everyone is mentally immune. you play the player first, then you play the matchup.

Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 9:48 PM | Unregistered Commentersubt-L

nothing weird that GM don't use hop kicks from FC if some top players in US don't know what is CC and why you don't use it with any of the jump moves.
Dont want to be a bitch, but hey, its a basic stuff.

Great podcast as allways btw.

Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 11:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterCheese

@ Rip.

Man...
Who is geesemaster and where has he gone and played? I'm not hating on him, but I AM hating on you.

Monday, April 4, 2011 at 8:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterLOC

DO NOT USE uf+2, b+4, d+4, db+3

uh.... please DO use b+4

Monday, April 4, 2011 at 8:47 AM | Unregistered CommenterLOC

@ LOC

geesemaster is from Washington or Oregon? he's been to NCR, EVO, and Strongstyle. check out a good match of his feng here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_-6RSVI_zQ he usually does pretty well in nor cal. pay really close attention in the final round starting at 4:15... its really quick and difficult to pick up on his strats in those 11 seconds. i think rip was being sarcastic about that comment though. happy belated birthday by the way.

Monday, April 4, 2011 at 8:58 AM | Unregistered Commenter725

I respect LMass......oppinion. All im saying is that if you really want to gain expossure,and better your self as a player as well as an individual too, find other players in your area who have that drive to better themselves as well. That will eventually lead to locals, then hoprfully majors. You level up be playing other players of equal or higher skill. Theres always something new to learn. Why enter a tournament if your goal is not to win? Your gonna obviously have fun anyways. You meet other players,maybey get a chicks number or even share strategies with others. Just saying. Im going to my first Evo. I can't wait! Im ready to learn and level up alot cuz i know for a fact that to progress you gotta get your ass handed to you a couple of times. IMFAMOUS OUT...............

Monday, April 4, 2011 at 9:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterIMFAMOUSMINDED

Yeah Geesemaster is pretty good. He may have your number LOC. Hes very creative with Feng. Lol you cant mention Feng without mentioning Geese.....he's been around for a min. Flame on.......

Monday, April 4, 2011 at 9:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterIMFAMOUSMINDED

@Subt-L: I totally agree with playing the player and not the character. Same page there. And granted, shit talking has a more obvious effect on an opponent. But like you said, some people draw strength from negative emotions. Maybe it is better to say that politeness has more of an effect on some players than shit talking does.


@LOC: In DR, totally use b+4! But in BR, against Ling, I just didn't have a whole lot of success finding her with b+4. It has to be range 0 or it whiffs. I stand by crazy arms.

Monday, April 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterLingmassacre

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